Drawing A Line Between Good And Bad Bug Chasing / Gift Giving

[rawTOP]

I'm putting this in the general forum 'cause I want to explain to the people who are turned off by bug chasing why I allow it on the site. Eventually I'll move the thread into the backroom, but I think it's worth a broader discussion initially...

A friend of mine in the porn business took offense when I said his traffic wasn't all that raunchy compared to mine. He said he had lots of "rough looking men, fetish including fisting, piss etc." on his sites. But to me things like fisting are pretty mainstream these days. I then related to him some of the challenges of moderating this forum - how some of you cross the line and advocate stealth breeding of unwilling neg bottoms. The idea that I'm promoting bug chasing and gift giving freaked my friend out a bit and so I felt compelled to try to explain it to him in a way he could understand. Here's what I wrote him...

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I see the whole bug chasing gift giving thing much the same way I see BDSM. Much of "the standard raunchy stuff" you mention works on the basis that sex is about power and control / domination and submission. While romantic sex is put on a pedestal, domination and submission is still quite normal though they're often misunderstood. Still, if you do a BDSM activity to someone who doesn't consent the act becomes rape. The fact that there are scenarios in which the act is rape doesn't mean the other forms of it are evil. Hell, romantic sex can also turn into rape if there isn't consent.

Giving and receiving cum is also incredibly natural and normal. I think it's actually quite deep in our psyche. Humans are the dominant species on our planet because we have the drive to procreate. There are bottoms who can't imagine asking a top to use a condom - either because they're submissive or because they crave cum - both impulses are quite normal. Those bottoms have two choices - ignore the fact that they probably will become HIV+ and "just let it happen", or embrace the whole process. I actually respect the people who embrace it more. For them it's a conscious, thoughtful decision. But they're called bug chasers and told to be ashamed of their impulses.

To me the problem is the general stigma around bug chasing and gift giving. It's created an environment where all bug chasing and gift giving are seen as wrong (and sometimes illegal). People used to see BDSM in the same light. But there's a difference and consent is the dividing line between the two sides... I don't mind being associated with bug chasing because I see it as something that's normal and natural and done quite thoughtfully. My challenge on the forum are the psychos who think that there's no difference between the criminal form and the normal form. The fact that many gay guys stigmatize all forms of bug chasing and don't draw a distinction between the two types doesn't help...

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I've had a number of you complain 'cause I temporarily ban you for advocating stealth breeding. In some cases the line is crossed inadvertently - to you they're fantasy scenarios but they seem a bit too real to the rest of us. But I don't apologize for drawing the line and enforcing the distinction. If that bothers you, then you need to go to another site...

But for all of you who who've made the decision to be a bug chaser, and all you poz tops who want to help them on their quest - this site is meant to be a safe haven for you... Still, I need the whole bug chasing / gift giving discussion to be off in it's own private area on the site ("the backroom") for a few reasons... One is to keep it away from the eyes of the general public who don't understand it. And two is because it's a turn off for some guys and I want this to be a site they enjoy too...

Thoughts?

[JoshLandaleXXX]

Thoughts? I couldn't agree with your comments any more. Well written and well explained.

Bug chasing is a VERY complex issue, and the reasons why guys do it are many and varied.. it's far deeper than just usual barebacking.

I totally agree that it should be tucked away in it's private place, or not for our protection, then certainly to protect those users who find it offensive. Barebacking is one thing, but the desire to take a poz load, or give a poz load to a neg guy is something all together different.

With regards the stealthing issue, i'll admit that it's a personal fantasy.. to be stealthed, and then when poz to stealth another... but, and it's a big but, to me it is just fantasy. Stealthing is illegal, and quite rightly so - those who advocate it in reality, shouldnt be allowed to post so openly here, and I for one agree with your sentiment that they need to find another site.

I guess i fall into the category of a bug chaser of sorts... i dont so much want to be poz, rather than i just dont care at all about my status.... however on the other hand, testing negative all the time is becoming a bit mundane if i'm honest... when guys tell me they're poz, it is a bit of a turn on for me, primarily because i guess i've fallen into that trap of "i'm immune, it will never happen to me!".. the risk, more than the bug itself, turns me on....

That plus the fact i'm a true cum dump, so will NEVER turn down any load, even if it's toxic.

[rawTOP]

With regards the stealthing issue, i'll admit that it's a personal fantasy.. to be stealthed, and then when poz to stealth another... but, and it's a big but, to me it is just fantasy. Stealthing is illegal, and quite rightly so - those who advocate it in reality, shouldnt be allowed to post so openly here, and I for one agree with your sentiment that they need to find another site.

I completely understand the whole fantasy aspect and the fiction section has tons of stories about stealth breeding. To me there's a difference between a movie about robbing a train and actually robbing a train (or advocating or planning an actual robbery)... As adults we should understand the difference.

[JoshLandaleXXX]

Totally agree... thats the point i was trying (perhaps badly in my tired pained state of mind) to make. We should know the difference. But there are are guys who fantasise about robbing the train, then plan or advocate robbing the train, and then after that fantasy becomes normal, go onto actually robbing the train in reality.

Those people who get the fantasy mixed with the reality, should be banned (albiet temporarily at first) from the site. The last thing we need is law enforcement agencies (who do monitor these kind of sites - i've personal experience of how they do and what happens when they act on mis-informtation) poking around and causing problems for the rest of us.

[sdcigarpig]

From my own point of view, having not only take up the challenge of taking and giving cum, but also talking to a few people, I have found that sometime people do not understand the reality of what they are asking for, rather reading too many fantasy sites. Too many men tend to want to hook up, and often fail to read the entire profile or understand there is a fine line between fantasy and reality. The best example of this, is that there is one site where this sub wanted me to hook up with him, but did not like or even want to agree that there would be risks, and have to take responsibility for those risks. It was a turn off for me, cause I did not want to make those decisions for him. Another guy I have been chatting with, is starting to understand, that it did not matter the kind of play he did, there was always a risk involved in doing some of those activities, him I am trying to get to go into bare backing, as I believe he would be a dam good pig. So for me it would be a matter of gut feeling and the honesty of the person who I was talking to and if I am going to take the take to fuck and get them into bare backing and those who I tend to avoid as it would be more trouble than what it is worth.

[BREEDmeRAW]

EVERY KINK is WEIRD, except our own.
It's only KINKY the FIRST Time.

The only way to get what you want, is to ADMIT it to Yourself -- then make a plan for Action.

I view the Whole Bug-Chasing Scene as actually a BOUNDRY line that we EACH set for ourselves. To take a known POZ Load when you KNOW that you are Negative is just plain CRAZY !! Yeah, that's right.... i said CRAZY !!
Why would you do something that will Definately affect your OWN Personal Health? YES, it is true that HIV Meds have done wonders and now most people can live 20+ Years.... A manageable DISEASE that could have been avoided?

But wait... I can't PREACHED to you that you should ALWAYS Use a condom. if i would have used a condom EVERY Time ..... I would NOT be POZ.
And if anyone knows how to UN-POZ me, please let me know.
I plan to be the HEALTHIEST CUM PIG on the planet. I get tested for STD's every 3 months -- i know I am a CUM PIG and take Dozens of LOADS and most are POZ, as I let guys know my status upfront. Every profile on EVERY Site. Do I CHASE any STD? NO ... but I know and accept the RISKS -- just like many Neg guys risk taking a POZ load.